and if you are around him his energy is usually captivated. so these are very impressive and important. and there is a relationship between him and people like stokely carmichael who have seen him and stokely says famously that if you're going to help organize it as long as he can be on the front row when malcolm comes to speak and malcolm is debating. black social democratic activists, the main organizers of the march on washington and had spent time with the conscientious objectives and influence that vary greatly. and when he sees him speak and find out who that is, he says that is who i want to be when i grow up. so it's very interesting that we have debated this in 1961 and it's been hugely important because he is influenced but he's also listening to malcolm asked to become further radicalized a growing conscience. >> host: good afternoon and welcome to our in-depth program. this is our monthly program where we invite an author on to talk about his or her body of work. this month we have peniel joseph. his first book came out in 2006, wa